Sunday, October 6, 2013

"Noobs" vs. Old School Players (Part 2)

My current group is using the D&D Next play test rules, and is an interesting mix of new and old school gamers.  It has been interesting to see how old school D&D players and new players are responding to the system and its trappings.  Some of us have been out of the hobby for some time (as I had been until the Fourth Edition promotional pod casts).

I hope this is not agist. 
The above picture is a metaphor for old school gamers who are looking for THAC0 on their Fourth Edition and D&D Next character sheets, and wondering what to do with "at wills", "cantrips", and "channel divinity". (Channel divinity powers are now where one finds turn undead, but they can alternately be used to flavor the cleric class with different special abilities).

And this is one...
Why isn't the channel changing?
...is for First and Second Edition players who pick up D&D Next character sheets and say, "Hit Dice. I know what to do with those!"

One of my favorite moments of the character creation session I recently referenced in part 1 of this post was when we could not find a "backpack" or "misc. equipment" section on the character sheet for D&D Next.  Of course, there is a big section for equipped items, such as what are you wearing on your head, and for armor, fighting hand, off-hand, etc.  The player, who is returning to gaming from First Edition said, "But where am I going to write down the various gems, stones, and treasure we find!?"  I kind of chuckled because this is something none of the groups I played in, nor the groups I have DM'd for, have ever done.  She was serious though.  I had played enough Eye of the Beholder to be able to throw out lapis lazuli and peridot as a joke.


These may not be tiger's eye, but they sure are pretty.
The important learning here is that there are indeed individual preferences at the table.  There are players (dare I say "still players") who want the precious materials they find to be detailed for them.  In the past I might have said, "You find 30 gold pieces worth of gems," once every few encounters to break up the monotony.  Now that I know I have a player who is into that, it is incumbent upon me as the DM to cater to her preference.  You better believe I will work to make sure I include a couple of jewels by name and vague description of mass and quality in their loot piles.  I'm gonna make those PCs work to figure out how much each is worth! Hell, it could become a whole adventure for them to have the stones appraised?!?

The same player is looking over her character sheet a few minutes later and says, "So, it's ten copper to a silver, ten silver to a gold, and ten gold to a platinum... and what is electrum worth?"  I might have slightly insensitively rolled my eyes before replying, "If you don't know, we're going to have to look it up."  But guess how many copper and electrum pieces they found after their next encounter.


Do you track these kinds of things in your games?  Do you count arrows or use strict spell component rules?   How do you keep it fun?

9 comments:

  1. Hale yes, but then again I am old school game master , heck i been game mastering sense return of Jedi came out at the New Mall multi cinema experience,
    so I never left those concepts behind, its a shame those where concepts that where dropped!
    I have next and fourth edition , but I do not play them - its just not my flavor. I am afraid that DnD NEXT THE FIFTH EDITION IS FAILING in all the ways fourth edition filed. .

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    1. As referenced below, I do love some of what they did in Fourth Edition. For that matter, I like where a lot of "Next" is going. What are your misgivings?

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  2. I'm a bit "old school" about specifying gems, but I think it adds more flavor to the story. Some players like to collect them, or have them made into items. For coinage I stick with only copper/silver/gold because they are historical, but I refer to them by names (penny/shilling/mark) rather than generically.

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  3. I'm just getting back into D&D, starting with 4e and hoping to make the transition to Next soon. But I'm the dude that wants the space to write down- "broken spear head from ugly troll"
    My players don't seem to care about the gems they pick up, or the fancy steel and gold cloak pin they found in the dragon's hoard. I don't think they've even written down how much gold they've picked up (can't wait til they try to buy some horses, or passage aboard a sea-faring vessel.)
    I'm looking forward to hearing other peoples' experiences with Next (why do you think it's a fail, Kris?) I hope some of my players are cool with the switch, they seem a bit entrenched in the 4e for now. It seems to me that what would attract people to 4e is not available in Next: i.e. the "powers"

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    1. I do find that 4E and "Next"/5E are almost apples and oranges and difficult to compare directly. I am open to the strengths and weaknesses of both systems (and any system really). Perhaps a forthcoming post on 4E vs. Next? I am also curios about Kris's take on the Next fail. If it is failing it would seem to me to be doing so in a whole different way than fourth. :) But I really don't see either as failing, just my humble opinion of course.

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  4. I still use my own house rules and 2nd ed AD&D. I could care less about spell components at all except for a specific few things that just make sense to have them. As to treasure, we roll them up and as to getting things appraised, hehe, How far is it to where they need to go? Hmmm.... 8 blocks so that means I get to roll for 4 different encounters on my city encounter tables.

    It once took 4 6 hour sessions for them to finally be able to get to the appraiser. By the time they got there they had already blown up almost all their gear and had to restock.

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  5. I always specify loot items, without value unless the character has a specific skill that would translate to someone who is has specific skills that would support accurate appraisal. Sometimes I have them do a DC to see how close they come to a good appraisal.

    First reason is player engagement to the story. I feel if players have a vivid description of what loot they have gained, they engage in the story of the game more.

    Second reason is story hooks. Items (including gems or jewelry) could have history behind them. Some may be property of certain power brokers back in town. Others may be very rare and highly sought after by those who wish to use them to conduct specific rituals or create fantastic items or simply to impress someone who admires such an item. A very few could be enchanted in some way that could be beneficial. Still others could be cursed or sought after by very dangerous and persistent threats.
    Not all items have such history, but the players don't know what to expect in my campaigns. ;-)

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  6. I agree with Allan. Imagine if, after a gaming session in the goblin caves, Bilbo's character sheet had Gold Ring (50gp?) written on it. A simple gold band to be certain... that eventually became an artifact of doom with enough power to drive a trilogy!

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  7. It looks like you don't update your site anymore but if you ever get back to it we should exchange links, find me over at thedailyrpg.com/

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